Just curious, the breastfeed controversy.

[Quo vadis]

I feel sorry for you SW.

I hope you have sex soon.

Did you ever have your "so called" Squirt tested to see just what it was?

Or are you too embarrassed to admit, it might be incontinence caused by an over stimulated bladder?  Why not ask your Gynecologist if squirting is real or just urine from your bladder? Instead of all the PHD's, I'll put my money on an MD for the right answer.

Imo, most "MDs" are quacks (particularly in this country), especially where it concerns human sexuality. They have a very poor track record, and make scientifically unverifiable claims.

In that case, the next time you need treatment for a severe illness or surgery, just go to your favorite PHD instead of an MD.

Never said PhDs are better than MDs. All I'm saying is the MDs in this country are not the ultimate source of all medical knowledge as you seem to be implying. Over the years, I've personally seen, or have immediate family members that have experienced, more MDs that are quacks, drug company cronies, or just outright dishonest, than are good, honest, caring Doctors. For me personally, I've found a good GP, that I trust, and have used his services on a regular basis for years, and plan to continue to do so.

Q.V.

[Sonja]

I feel sorry for you SW.

I hope you have sex soon.

I agree!  Sometimes I imagine SW belching dust - needs to get those juices flowing again and come back to life.   My offer of a free sandwich if you just show up and don't even party still stands.  The value menu is coming along nicely.  I'm sure we can come up with something for your budget. 

Speaking of juices - that happens in all kinds of form when people have sex - especially if one or more of the participants get excited.  Some girls squirt & it's a sweet, clear water very different from urine.  Some girls lactate.  Some people kiss. Some girls get wet without lube. Some guys ejaculate. Some people like to be peed on.  A lot of times - awesome, rip-rollicking sex is wet-n-wild.

BTW- I'm guessing most people know this but, Sidewinder, I didn't write the laws, I don't get to interpret the laws, I only follow the laws.   If I did write the laws - I'd probably want to add and outline in graphic detail a mandatory and uniform DC.  I might even go with a suggestion on another thread that the DC include an anti-bacterial wash to cut down on issues that can arise from mere skin to skin contact.   I'm all for being careful and thoughtful.  I just still want to have actual physical sex and not something out of "Demolition Man" where sex is putting on our helmets and thinking about it together.

[SIDEWINDER]

I feel sorry for you SW.

I hope you have sex soon.

I agree!  Sometimes I imagine SW belching dust - needs to get those juices flowing again and come back to life.   My offer of a free sandwich if you just show up and don't even party still stands.  The value menu is coming along nicely.  I'm sure we can come up with something for your budget. 

Speaking of juices - that happens in all kinds of form when people have sex - especially if one or more of the participants get excited.  Some girls squirt & it's a sweet, clear water very different from urine.  Some girls lactate.  Some people kiss. Some girls get wet without lube. Some guys ejaculate. Some people like to be peed on.  A lot of times - awesome, rip-rollicking sex is wet-n-wild.

BTW- I'm guessing most people know this but, Sidewinder, I didn't write the laws, I don't get to interpret the laws, I only follow the laws.   If I did write the laws - I'd probably want to add and outline in graphic detail a mandatory and uniform DC.  I might even go with a suggestion on another thread that the DC include an anti-bacterial wash to cut down on issues that can arise from mere skin to skin contact.   I'm all for being careful and thoughtful.  I just still want to have actual physical sex and not something out of "Demolition Man" where sex is putting on our helmets and thinking about it together.

You forgot to add that making a man think women can really squirt adds big bucks to that special party. If only men knew they were getting the wool pulled over their eyes and were actually paying more to be pissed on.   

[SIDEWINDER]

BTW: This squirting thing started in the 80's after the Meese commission ruling on pornography came out. Don't you find it the least bit strange that women never squirted before that? You think for sure you would have heard about it during the sexual revolution of the 60's. Or even the 70's?

[SIDEWINDER]

Here's one to wrap your brain around SW. Maybe the women just didn't admit to it because they thought they were peeing and were too embarrassed to talk about it until the 80's!
I know, Dr Dean blah blah blah

Just another possibility

Or perhaps they knew they were peeing.

BTW: I've never questioned whether they squirt or not. Just what it is they're squirting.

[East Coast Guy]

Ok, I've been thinking of jumping in on this conversation with my experience with squirting, ah, make that a woman's experience that I saw and participated in.   

I was with a woman once who squirted 3 times in about 1 1/2 minutes.   The first was a lot and the last 2 were about 1/3 of that.    I was thinking about it afterwards and wondered if it was urine, how could she have held some in reserve for the last 2 squirts?    Ya, I know this sounds funny but have you ever started to urinate and then tried to stop mid flow and hold it?     Not easy.  Then she does that twice all along being manually stimulated and excited.    This was not a turn on for me, in fact it was a turn off.     

Now, the ability for some women to squirt fluid other the urine is questionable to me.    This does give me food for thought though.   

For me, I don't prefer squirting at all, no matter what the fluid is.   Of course, normal lubrication is welcome.   

BTW, I almost forgot.    She did say it was not urine.   



East Coast Guy

[fantasygirl]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jsm.12166/abstract

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2010.01720.x/abstract

http://www.wellnesspartners.com/kegels/female_ejaculation.html

[SIDEWINDER]

What in the hell is this mumbo jumbo? It was discovered and then forgotten over the last 2000 years? Female prostate?

BTW: I noticed they did not mention what the fluid was that was being ejaculated. Credible evidence? Did they test the fluid to see what it was? What credible evidence?   

[fantasygirl]

Women have been ashamed. It's seen as un lady like. I'm sure many women have urinated during sex but some of us have experienced the white sticky drops.

[fantasygirl]

And if my urine becomes milk white and sticky I'd go to the dr.

[sunseeker]

What in the hell is this mumbo jumbo? It was discovered and then forgotten over the last 2000 years? Female prostate?

BTW: I noticed they did not mention what the fluid was that was being ejaculated. Credible evidence? Did they test the fluid to see what it was? What credible evidence?   

Sidey - read the abstracts - the 1st two are meta-analyses - the authors review previous papers.
In them, people do analyze female ejaculate. (though the 1st time was only in 1982).

Unfortunately J Sex Med. is behind a paywall, even the references.  Do you feel like registering and shelling out (typically) $30-40 per article? I'm less than motivated, though the survey (below) might get me to.

This abstract is a recent (2007) article in it, the abstract says: "there's still controversy", "we looked with ultrasound, endoscopy and chemical analysis", "our two subject's squirts analyze like prostate fluid, and NOT like urine".
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17634056

Two years later, these folks did MRI on "female prostate pathology".
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19453901
They find "parurethral glands" in 6 out of 7 subjects via MRI, but there's no relation between gland size and ejaculation status.

Just this year, they published the results of an online survey of 320 women.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2012.11562.x/abstract

Maybe we should invite the main author of these last three studies (from Austria) to the next LPIN Gathering ;-)
http://www.researchgate.net/profile/Florian_Wimpissinger/publications/
Oh, the irony (at least in English), a guy named Florian Wimpissinger is a urologist!

And in my experience, I had a lover who, when fisted (slowly, gently, ...) with stimulation of the anterior vagina (where the G-spot is located), would come very hard and she would juice (though not really squirt) from both her vagina and urethra.  The vaginal stuff was a mix of the lube we used and regular female wetness.  The stuff from her urethra was more viscous and whiter (though still pretty clear), and tasted kinda like come,
definitely NOT urine.

(surely in your years of snack-n-jack you started in on a woman who had just peed, and once her muscles down there started contracting due to the stimulation you got a few salty drops to know what urine tastes like?)

The concept of female ejaculation has been controversial for many reasons (rareness/hard to reproduce, feminist/anti-feminist politics, sexism, sexual shaming, the desire to have a single/simple answer, and just plain pig-headed dogmatism).
Even Masters and Johnson, having observed a few cases of it, dismissed it!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_ejaculation

Even the wiki article is weasel-ish - "To date, there have been no conclusive or major studies...", then they reference the 2007 study.
Fuck that - if you find even one black swan, the proposition that "all swans are white" is disproved.
(I've seen black swans myself - in their native Australia)


The lack of easy reproducibility (by their pet method) is a bug-boo with many scientists.
This feminist blog post pointed to an study where the men-in-the-white-coats put needle electrodes in the clitorises of 38 Egyptian women and electrostimulated them to orgasm - no female ejaculation found. (But gosh, should one really expect it?)
http://www.xojane.com/sex/female-ejaculation-stories
Pub-med abstract of Egyptian study:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20183002
n.b. electro-ejaculation is a common method of getting semen from bulls, boars, etc.

But as was the case with my former lover, it seems to be the case that it's G-spot stimulation (in a relaxed state) that triggers female ejaculation.  The Skene's glands (aka female prostate) are along the urethra, which is anterior (to the front) of the vagina.

My take is with these guys (at least their abstract, I don't read Czech).
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8004685
Ejaculation/juicing by females when they orgasm can be one or more of: Skene's glands secretions, urine, and vaginal lube; depending on the female and the circumstances.

[Sonja]

Awesome post sunseeker.  It's gonna take me a day or two to sift through all that but I appreciate the detective work you did. 

Still trying to figure out how this thread is about the breastfeed controversy.

[fantasygirl]

I changed the subject

[sunseeker]

Sonja - you're welcome.
It appears we all have a lot to learn about sexuality, little real studies have been done beside those mentioned.

Two links from xojane I found very interesting:

1. From a doula trainer and sex educator who did this study while at Univ. of Wisconsin-Madison.
http://www.amygilliland.com/documents/GillilandFE.pdf
What I found interesting is the reports of some women who do NOT ejaculate with vaginal stimulation but DO with clitoral stimulation (in contrast with what I had presumed was "the way").
And women who ejaculate (mostly) BEFORE orgasm.
A real take-home lesson in the problems of defining/referencing people to "normal" - it appears that there is no normal with female ejaculation, just what the individual woman is/does.

2. A tender story from a lesbian's experience when she was 21, complete with embarrassed tears the 1st time.
http://www.spectermagazine.com/four/shannon-barber/

[SIDEWINDER]

Well, it's just like Dean Edel said. To mention this subject and tell the truth is like attacking their religion. They won't even accept evidence from test done such as testing the urine.  That's alright. For fellers who want to pay extra to have ladies piss on their face, be my guest.