GFE "Specialists" that don't kiss

[Flyfisher]

LOL....LPIN is such a small and specialized market in the world of pay for play.  In every other pay for sex venue, GFE means DFK, DATY, CFS and the clincher.////the bare back blow job....BBBJ. 

Now we all know that BBBJ is fucking illegal as all hell in LPIN and its a NO NO and we are all good boys and girls, aren't we? 

[pitasandwichpimp]

LOL....LPIN is such a small and specialized market in the world of pay for play.  In every other pay for sex venue, GFE means DFK, DATY, CFS and the clincher.////the bare back blow job....BBBJ. 

Now we all know that BBBJ is fucking illegal as all hell in LPIN and its a NO NO and we are all good boys and girls, aren't we?

Happens everyday at every house.

[Albert]

The term "GFE" has been misappropriated and overused to the point where it doesn't mean anything. Same with the term "curvy;" obese women who are in denial have misappropriated and overused it to the point where many normal-looking women consider it an insult to be called curvy.

Ladies, if your measurements are 40-40-40 and your gut sticks out further than your chest and hangs down to your upper thighs, then you're not curvy. And, you don't get "GFE" in a Nevada brothel. It's against State law.

[Rickwild1]

my first party ever had no kissing... it was just an ok party. 

every party since had kissing and were about a million times better than the first one.

I wont do a party without kissing ever again... its just so lame... its cold... no intimacy...

I want the real deal GFE. I want it to feel like a GF, intimate and passionate. without kissing it just feels like a sleazy fuck to me.

I wish to clarify this statement. I wasn't COMPLETELY honest. while this post was honest... some information was omitted.

I don't NEED to make out the entire time. while it is nice and I do enjoy it. that dosent mean I don't also enjoy just a few light kisses here and there through out the party.

why is some kissing important to me? why do I NEED a GFE party?

well, lets explore that. as ive said before, I don't mind being honest about myself or my life. I don't care what anyone thinks. this is me. this is how I am. anyone who dosent like it can fuck off.

first, I have a lot of respect for women in general. respect the females always. treat women like ladies, not courtesans. protect them. provide for them. take care of them. don't use them for sex. don't treat them like sexual objects. love them. this is how I was raised. its part of who I am. I cant help it.

now im going to brothels... which is just about sex. sex and money and nothing else. it causes a conflict within me. now, I am a man. the man part of me wants to just throw a girl on the bed and fuck her like a courtesan. that may be a harsh way of saying it... but, we've already covered that im not very tactful recently so lets just move on. but then, the respectful part of me feels GUILTY for treating a lady that way. the little moral police officer in my head says "dude, that's not how you treat a lady". then I feel GUILTY.

I don't have a lot of experience with women. before going to a brothel for the first time at age 42 I had only slept with 3 women in my life. im not accustomed to treating women like this. its all very new to me. honestly, I probably sound like a pussy right now but im just not used to treating women this way. I have fun when I party, don't get me wrong. I love it. I love every minute of it. but because of the conflict within me... the morals instilled upon me... I feel GUILTY afterwards.

so what does this have to do with GFE parties and kissing youre probably wondering...

well, for me its like this. I like to indulge the girlfriend fantasy. I like the kissing. why? it makes it more personal. its more intimate. if I indulge the girlfriend fantasy then in my head it becomes more of "i really care about this person". it makes me feel like im letting this lady know that while yes I am here for sex I do actually care about you as one human being to another. it helps me alleviate some of the GUILT I feel about using a woman just for sex.

so yes, a party without kissing does feel like a sleazy fuck to me. it makes me feel like I just took advantage of someone. it makes me feel like I just treated a woman like shit. like I just degraded and objectified her. it makes me feel GUILTY. it makes me feel like I'M the sleazy one.

yes I know what people will say. "that's what the brothels are for". "that's what the girls are there for". all that kind of stuff. it dosent matter. it dosent change the way my brain works.

its my struggle. yes I want to have sex with a random girl ive only talked to for 5 minutes. yes that turns me on. yes I find it hot as fuck to hop in bed with a chick I barely know. yes I wanna have sex with lots of girls. yes I feel like shit afterwards. yes I feel like I took advantage of someone. yes I feel like this is wrong. yes I want to do it. yes I love it. yes I feel GUILTY. yes, its hard for me.

ive had some really good times with ladies so far. I do enjoy myself and will continue to enjoy myself. ill go many more times and sleep with many more ladies. but because I have a great time partying with the ladies dosent mean im just 100% comfortable with treating them this way. it dosent mean I don't struggle with it within myself. for me its much more complicated than just having casual sex for fun. even just a few kisses here and there make me a lot more comfortable with the whole situation. its like it tricks my conscience... it then gets associated with a girlfriend type of experience and not just a hooker type of experience. my brain just associates kissing with caring. it makes it a lot easier for me. do I like the casual sex? so far I love it. is it easy for me? no, its not.

yes, I know... im kinda weird. but that's just how it is for me. I cant really be more honest than that about it.

its hard to post a post like this... being so honest about myself. how I feel. especially since this board is all about being the macho guys who bang bunches of chicks. that's just not the person I am. as bad as I wanna be that person. its hard to change the way my brain is wired.

[bergerman]

Yes, if they're going to use that term (GFE)in their descriptions, kissing should be a pretty standard part?!?! It drives me bananas though when I find out these things during the tryst. I don't want to carry in a "grocery list" of things that I have to go over during negotiations. Put it out there fellas in your reviews of the ladies; ladies put things you don't enjoy/won't do in your descriptions.

[Jack Rackham]

my first party ever had no kissing... it was just an ok party. 

every party since had kissing and were about a million times better than the first one.

I wont do a party without kissing ever again... its just so lame... its cold... no intimacy...

I want the real deal GFE. I want it to feel like a GF, intimate and passionate. without kissing it just feels like a sleazy fuck to me.

I wish to clarify this statement. I wasn't COMPLETELY honest. while this post was honest... some information was omitted.

I don't NEED to make out the entire time. while it is nice and I do enjoy it. that dosent mean I don't also enjoy just a few light kisses here and there through out the party.

why is some kissing important to me? why do I NEED a GFE party?

well, lets explore that. as ive said before, I don't mind being honest about myself or my life. I don't care what anyone thinks. this is me. this is how I am. anyone who dosent like it can fuck off.

first, I have a lot of respect for women in general. respect the females always. treat women like ladies, not courtesans. protect them. provide for them. take care of them. don't use them for sex. don't treat them like sexual objects. love them. this is how I was raised. its part of who I am. I cant help it.

now im going to brothels... which is just about sex. sex and money and nothing else. it causes a conflict within me. now, I am a man. the man part of me wants to just throw a girl on the bed and fuck her like a courtesan. that may be a harsh way of saying it... but, we've already covered that im not very tactful recently so lets just move on. but then, the respectful part of me feels GUILTY for treating a lady that way. the little moral police officer in my head says "dude, that's not how you treat a lady". then I feel GUILTY.

I don't have a lot of experience with women. before going to a brothel for the first time at age 42 I had only slept with 3 women in my life. im not accustomed to treating women like this. its all very new to me. honestly, I probably sound like a pussy right now but im just not used to treating women this way. I have fun when I party, don't get me wrong. I love it. I love every minute of it. but because of the conflict within me... the morals instilled upon me... I feel GUILTY afterwards.

so what does this have to do with GFE parties and kissing youre probably wondering...

well, for me its like this. I like to indulge the girlfriend fantasy. I like the kissing. why? it makes it more personal. its more intimate. if I indulge the girlfriend fantasy then in my head it becomes more of "i really care about this person". it makes me feel like im letting this lady know that while yes I am here for sex I do actually care about you as one human being to another. it helps me alleviate some of the GUILT I feel about using a woman just for sex.

so yes, a party without kissing does feel like a sleazy fuck to me. it makes me feel like I just took advantage of someone. it makes me feel like I just treated a woman like shit. like I just degraded and objectified her. it makes me feel GUILTY. it makes me feel like I'M the sleazy one.

yes I know what people will say. "that's what the brothels are for". "that's what the girls are there for". all that kind of stuff. it dosent matter. it dosent change the way my brain works.

its my struggle. yes I want to have sex with a random girl ive only talked to for 5 minutes. yes that turns me on. yes I find it hot as fuck to hop in bed with a chick I barely know. yes I wanna have sex with lots of girls. yes I feel like shit afterwards. yes I feel like I took advantage of someone. yes I feel like this is wrong. yes I want to do it. yes I love it. yes I feel GUILTY. yes, its hard for me.

ive had some really good times with ladies so far. I do enjoy myself and will continue to enjoy myself. ill go many more times and sleep with many more ladies. but because I have a great time partying with the ladies dosent mean im just 100% comfortable with treating them this way. it dosent mean I don't struggle with it within myself. for me its much more complicated than just having casual sex for fun. even just a few kisses here and there make me a lot more comfortable with the whole situation. its like it tricks my conscience... it then gets associated with a girlfriend type of experience and not just a hooker type of experience. my brain just associates kissing with caring. it makes it a lot easier for me. do I like the casual sex? so far I love it. is it easy for me? no, its not.

yes, I know... im kinda weird. but that's just how it is for me. I cant really be more honest than that about it.

its hard to post a post like this... being so honest about myself. how I feel. especially since this board is all about being the macho guys who bang bunches of chicks. that's just not the person I am. as bad as I wanna be that person. its hard to change the way my brain is wired.

Rickwild, I don't think you're weird. Actually, I think you nailed it. At least for me. This is exactly how I feel too. I like going to the brothels and will continue to go but yeah, I haven't reconciled the guilt completely like a lot of guys and women on this site have. It's the baggage I carry from my upbringing. I think that's exactly the reason why I probably gravitate more toward the girl next door type rather than the porn-star, chain-smoking, hardcore slut or any of the really hardcore fetishes. I'm not at all judging those ladies or customers who do those things cause that's just their kink and how they are wired and obviously there are ladies at the houses that do enjoy this. But for ME, I have to have some kind of a relational connection (short-term) and treat the lady not just as something to jump all over or use. Otherwise, I would feel guilty as hell when I walk out the door and I wouldn't come back. That's just who I am and I am not going to apologize for that either. Thanks for the post, dude.

JR

[Rickwild1]

Yes, if they're going to use that term (GFE)in their descriptions, kissing should be a pretty standard part?!?! It drives me bananas though when I find out these things during the tryst. I don't want to carry in a "grocery list" of things that I have to go over during negotiations. Put it out there fellas in your reviews of the ladies; ladies put things you don't enjoy/won't do in your descriptions.

Right, but, I think kissing goes on a case by case basis with a lot ladies. If someone has nice pearly white teeth and good oral hygiene they're gonna be a lot more likely to kiss than they would with the guy that has half his teeth missing, the half that's left are little black stumps and his breath smells like a litter box. Put yourself in their place. Would you wanna make out with some yuck mouthed chick?

I'm a pretty clean guy. Just cuz a chick kisses me certainly dosent mean she's going to kiss everyone.

I can see this being a tough one for the ladies. 

[Sonja]

There are some girls who don't kiss because of their OWN dental situation.  I do know there was one girl in particular who was in the midst of getting some work done and she was afraid of catching something orally because of it.   Her concerns were actually fair. 

[bergerman]

Totally agree with you and I wouldn't blame a lady for being honest with a guy that has green teeth or bad hygiene! It also works the other way too! Ladies should brush their teeth and use mouthwash if they're a smoker especially. I still say the lady shouldn't use the term GFE if they are not kissing at all.

Yes, if they're going to use that term (GFE)in their descriptions, kissing should be a pretty standard part?!?! It drives me bananas though when I find out these things during the tryst. I don't want to carry in a "grocery list" of things that I have to go over during negotiations. Put it out there fellas in your reviews of the ladies; ladies put things you don't enjoy/won't do in your descriptions.

Right, but, I think kissing goes on a case by case basis with a lot ladies. If someone has nice pearly white teeth and good oral hygiene they're gonna be a lot more likely to kiss than they would with the guy that has half his teeth missing, the half that's left are little black stumps and his breath smells like a litter box. Put yourself in their place. Would you wanna make out with some yuck mouthed chick?

I'm a pretty clean guy. Just cuz a chick kisses me certainly dosent mean she's going to kiss everyone.

I can see this being a tough one for the ladies. 

That's all fair enough and understandable. I'm there though to fuck, suck, lick, and kiss (not necessarily DFK), so keep the descriptions honest. Of course with you Sonja I had no worries! 

There are some girls who don't kiss because of their OWN dental situation.  I do know there was one girl in particular who was in the midst of getting some work done and she was afraid of catching something orally because of it.   Her concerns were actually fair.

[sperminator]

my first party ever had no kissing... it was just an ok party.  every party since had kissing and were about a million times better than the first one.

I wont do a party without kissing ever again... its just so lame... its cold... no intimacy... I want the real deal GFE. I want it to feel like a GF, intimate and passionate. without kissing it just feels like a sleazy fuck to me.

I don't NEED to make out the entire time. while it is nice and I do enjoy it.

why is some kissing important to me? why do I NEED a GFE party?

well, for me its like this. I like to indulge the girlfriend fantasy. I like the kissing. why? it makes it more personal. its more intimate. if I indulge the girlfriend fantasy then in my head it becomes more of "i really care about this person". it makes me feel like im letting this lady know that while yes I am here for sex I do actually care about you as one human being to another. it helps me alleviate some of the GUILT I feel about using a woman just for sex.

a party without kissing does feel like a sleazy fuck to me. it makes me feel like I just took advantage of someone. it makes me feel like I just treated a woman like shit. like I just degraded and objectified her. it makes me feel GUILTY. it makes me feel like I'M the sleazy one.

I have a lot of respect for women in general. respect the females always. treat women like ladies, not courtesans. protect them. provide for them. take care of them. don't use them for sex. don't treat them like sexual objects. love them. this is how I was raised. its part of who I am. I cant help it.

now im going to brothels.... the man part of me wants to just throw a girl on the bed and fuck her like a courtesan.

but then, the respectful part of me feels GUILTY for treating a lady that way. the little moral police officer in my head says "dude, that's not how you treat a lady". then I feel GUILTY.

I have fun when I party, don't get me wrong. I love it. I love every minute of it. but because of the conflict within me... the morals instilled upon me... I feel GUILTY afterwards.

so what does this have to do with GFE parties and kissing youre probably wondering...


yes, I know what people will say. "that's what the brothels are for". "that's what the girls are there for". all that kind of stuff. it dosent matter. it dosent change the way my brain works.

yes I want to have sex with a random girl ive only talked to for 5 minutes.

yes that turns me on. y

yes I find it hot as fuck to hop in bed with a chick I barely know.

yes I wanna have sex with lots of girls. yes I feel like shit afterwards.

yes I feel like I took advantage of someone.

yes I feel like this is wrong. yes I want to do it.

yes I love it. yes I feel GUILTY. yes, its hard for me.

I do enjoy myself and will continue to enjoy myself. ill go many more times and sleep with many more ladies. but because I have a great time partying with the ladies dosent mean im just 100% comfortable with treating them this way.

it dosent mean I don't struggle with it within myself. for me its much more complicated than just having casual sex for fun. even just a few kisses here and there make me a lot more comfortable with the whole situation. its like it tricks my conscience... it then gets associated with a girlfriend type of experience and not just a hooker type of experience. my brain just associates kissing with caring. it makes it a lot easier for me.

First, I appreciate your honesty. But I'd like to introduce a new element into all of this. You're basically saying that kissing, making out with these girls makes YOU feel better. It makes YOU feel like you're not taking advantage of them. Like YOU are not just using them for sex.

And that's all well and good. For YOU.

You're clearly a nice, caring person. I don't doubt for a second you really wrestle with the issues you mentioned. But another way to look at this is that not all girls might like the intimacy that comes with kissing and making out. In fact, as Julia Roberts famously said in Pretty Woman....

What I guess I'm saying, is that while you're trying to be a good guy here, and show the girl that she's not just a fuck toy to you, you may inadvertently be having her do something she'd really rather not be doing. But with GFE parties so popular, and so many girls willing to engage in them, what choice does she have.

The part of your brain that is racked with guilt, may not welcome that possibility. But the honest part, the part that led to this posting, probably will.

What's the answer? Fuck if I know. I'd say bring it up in negotiations, but once a girl knows how important kissing is to you, who knows how honest she'll be about if - or how much - she actually enjoys it. Above all else, she wants your business. So, bottom line, you're just going to have to accept the fact that if you weren't paying her, she very likely wouldn't want to kiss - or even fuck - you.

But she's a grown adult. She's entered a world that is all about compromise. It's not on you to Save her. Or worry that she'd really rather not be doing this or that. She wouldn't 90'something percent of the time. But as is the case with most people, not every part of a job is enjoyable. They're big girls. The fact that you even care enough to be concerned about any of this, already makes you way nicer than some of the assholes they deal with all day, every day. Cut yourself some slack.

yes, I know... im kinda weird. but that's just how it is for me. I cant really be more honest than that about it.

its hard to post a post like this... being so honest about myself. how I feel. especially since this board is all about being the macho guys who bang bunches of chicks. that's just not the person I am. as bad as I wanna be that person. its hard to change the way my brain is wired.

I don't think you're weird. I also never thought of this place as a place that's all about being macho. What'd macho about paying for it, anyway.

It's think you're a thinker. One of those guys who tends to over analyze things. Absolutely nothing wrong about that. Just means you're a considerate, chivalrous man.

Also, it doesn't have to be LPIN or nothing. Dating real girls and paying prostitutes doesn't have to be a one or the other thing. Try some online dating (assuming you're not married). I think a lot of guys here think getting laid for free - where there's no doubt as to why she's kissing you - is a lot harder than it actually is. Plenty of websites out there fulled with women who probably love someone as thoughtful as you.

And if that last line isn't the opposite of Macho, I don't know what is.

Final thought, it'll get easy with time.

[Rickwild1]

my first party ever had no kissing... it was just an ok party.  every party since had kissing and were about a million times better than the first one.

I wont do a party without kissing ever again... its just so lame... its cold... no intimacy... I want the real deal GFE. I want it to feel like a GF, intimate and passionate. without kissing it just feels like a sleazy fuck to me.

I don't NEED to make out the entire time. while it is nice and I do enjoy it.

why is some kissing important to me? why do I NEED a GFE party?

well, for me its like this. I like to indulge the girlfriend fantasy. I like the kissing. why? it makes it more personal. its more intimate. if I indulge the girlfriend fantasy then in my head it becomes more of "i really care about this person". it makes me feel like im letting this lady know that while yes I am here for sex I do actually care about you as one human being to another. it helps me alleviate some of the GUILT I feel about using a woman just for sex.

a party without kissing does feel like a sleazy fuck to me. it makes me feel like I just took advantage of someone. it makes me feel like I just treated a woman like shit. like I just degraded and objectified her. it makes me feel GUILTY. it makes me feel like I'M the sleazy one.

I have a lot of respect for women in general. respect the females always. treat women like ladies, not courtesans. protect them. provide for them. take care of them. don't use them for sex. don't treat them like sexual objects. love them. this is how I was raised. its part of who I am. I cant help it.

now im going to brothels.... the man part of me wants to just throw a girl on the bed and fuck her like a courtesan.

but then, the respectful part of me feels GUILTY for treating a lady that way. the little moral police officer in my head says "dude, that's not how you treat a lady". then I feel GUILTY.

I have fun when I party, don't get me wrong. I love it. I love every minute of it. but because of the conflict within me... the morals instilled upon me... I feel GUILTY afterwards.

so what does this have to do with GFE parties and kissing youre probably wondering...


yes, I know what people will say. "that's what the brothels are for". "that's what the girls are there for". all that kind of stuff. it dosent matter. it dosent change the way my brain works.

yes I want to have sex with a random girl ive only talked to for 5 minutes.

yes that turns me on. y

yes I find it hot as fuck to hop in bed with a chick I barely know.

yes I wanna have sex with lots of girls. yes I feel like shit afterwards.

yes I feel like I took advantage of someone.

yes I feel like this is wrong. yes I want to do it.

yes I love it. yes I feel GUILTY. yes, its hard for me.

I do enjoy myself and will continue to enjoy myself. ill go many more times and sleep with many more ladies. but because I have a great time partying with the ladies dosent mean im just 100% comfortable with treating them this way.

it dosent mean I don't struggle with it within myself. for me its much more complicated than just having casual sex for fun. even just a few kisses here and there make me a lot more comfortable with the whole situation. its like it tricks my conscience... it then gets associated with a girlfriend type of experience and not just a hooker type of experience. my brain just associates kissing with caring. it makes it a lot easier for me.

First, I appreciate your honesty. But I'd like to introduce a new element into all of this. You're basically saying that kissing, making out with these girls makes YOU feel better. It makes YOU feel like you're not taking advantage of them. Like YOU are not just using them for sex.

And that's all well and good. For YOU.

its about comfort zone for me yes, but at the same time its important to me that the girl is comfortable as well. im always open to communication and compromise to find that place where we are both comfortable.

You're clearly a nice, caring person. I don't doubt for a second you really wrestle with the issues you mentioned. But another way to look at this is that not all girls might like the intimacy that comes with kissing and making out. In fact, as Julia Roberts famously said in Pretty Woman....

yup ive learned much about this so far.

What I guess I'm saying, is that while you're trying to be a good guy here, and show the girl that she's not just a fuck toy to you, you may inadvertently be having her do something she'd really rather not be doing. But with GFE parties so popular, and so many girls willing to engage in them, what choice does she have.

yes ive learned about this as well. but they do have a choice. kissing is a quick fix for me. but theres also other ways to make it feel more personal. talking and connecting a bit help a lot too. it would be nice to feel like a girl is a friend.

The part of your brain that is racked with guilt, may not welcome that possibility. But the honest part, the part that led to this posting, probably will.

What's the answer? Fuck if I know. I'd say bring it up in negotiations, but once a girl knows how important kissing is to you, who knows how honest she'll be about if - or how much - she actually enjoys it. Above all else, she wants your business. So, bottom line, you're just going to have to accept the fact that if you weren't paying her, she very likely wouldn't want to kiss - or even fuck - you.

well yea im very honest with myself about this. I know none of these girls would be doing anything with me if not for the money. considering im partying with girls half my age. we don't usually have a lot in common. don't really connect with them to well in conversation.

But she's a grown adult. She's entered a world that is all about compromise. It's not on you to Save her. Or worry that she'd really rather not be doing this or that. She wouldn't 90'something percent of the time. But as is the case with most people, not every part of a job is enjoyable. They're big girls. The fact that you even care enough to be concerned about any of this, already makes you way nicer than some of the assholes they deal with all day, every day. Cut yourself some slack.

not trying to save anyone. I don't think any of these girls want or need to be saved. they know what theyre doing.

yes, I know... im kinda weird. but that's just how it is for me. I cant really be more honest than that about it.

its hard to post a post like this... being so honest about myself. how I feel. especially since this board is all about being the macho guys who bang bunches of chicks. that's just not the person I am. as bad as I wanna be that person. its hard to change the way my brain is wired.

I don't think you're weird. I also never thought of this place as a place that's all about being macho. What'd macho about payong for it, anyway.

It's think you're a thinker. One of those guys who tends to over analyze things. Absolutely nothing wrong about that. Just means you're a considerate, chivalrous man.

I do over analyze everything. im a planner.

Also, it doesn't have to be LPIN or nothing. Dating real girls and paying prostitutes doesn't have to be a one or the other thing. Try some online dating (assuming you're not married). I think a lot of guys here think getting laid for free - where there's no doubt as to why she's kissing you - is a lot harder than it actually is. Plenty of websites out there fulled with women who probably love someone as thoughtful as you.

work/lifestyle dosent allow time for real dating. im rarely in the same city more than a day. its been nothing for a long time here. LPIN at least is an outlet to spend some kind of time with a nice lady.  besides... im not really in a place right now where im very interested in having a GF. bad relationships ect. not wanting to deal with it again atm.

its not really about why she's kissing me. not trying to mistake it for a romantic connection. cuz I know there is none. its just about me. it makes me feel more comfortable with it.

And if that last line isn't the opposite of Macho, I don't know what is.

Final thought, it'll get easy with time.

im frustrated at the moment. i want something i cant have. think im gonna change things up next time. head out to monas im thinking. maybe a change of scenery will clear the head a bit. i just want to find a girl, somewhere, anywhere, that i can repeat with a lot and build up comfort zone. so far im just not establishing good connections. ive had really fun parties for the most part. just not clicking as well as id hoped for. its me though. im quiet. i don't connect with most people very quickly. i don't trust easily. i have so much trust issues i make it hard for anyone to connect with me. its a catch 22. i make it hard for me to get what i want.

[Rickwild1]

^^^^Rick, what is "clicking" to you? JMO- but most of the girls you aren't going to click with. Seems like you are looking for great sex with someone you can enjoy conversation with, someone you can laugh with and at. Someone where you know her body and she knows yours, knows what you like and her as well. Basically, an ATF.

It depends what you're looking for in this hobby. To fuck a bunch of different chicks or to look for your ATF and then see her two dozen times. You have to figure that out first.  I tend to stick with what I like.

Yes an ATF is what I want. Just to feel like its a friend. Nothing more.

But i don't wanna party with one girl exclusively either. I wouldn't expect a girl to be committed to my parties. She's gonna have other appointments sometimes when I wanna party. She's not gonna always be available. So it's like I wanna have several ATFs. As much as I do enjoy a new girl. I'm finding that I'm much more comfortable in repeats.

Im still to new. I know i just need to give it more time. I got about 15-20 parties planned for the ext few months. So maybe in a few months things will be more how I want.

10 parties, I'm still a newbie. I think it takes a lot not than that to graduate to veteran. I learn more everytime I go. Learn about brothels. Learn about girls. Learn about myself.

It's not as easy as i thought itd be. Sex as a buisness transaction mixed with inter-personal relationships. Feeling guilty about it. I originally thought the exchange of money would make it so i wouldn't feel like im just using someone.  You know since we're both getting something out of it. But that hasn't been the case. It's been more complicated for me than I anticipated. I love to party. I know that. I just feel shitty afterwards. I'm blaming the god damn catholic upbringing. Those bastards brain washed me. 

But then i also think to much about it. Over think it all. It's boring just driving all day. My mind tends to wander toward brothels a lot lately.

I'm just gonna keep partying. Im sure I'll get used to it at some point.

[ancient mariner]

Ok I'm sorry but this pisses me off.  So many ladies offer the GFE experience but there are some that claim it's their favorite party and they are such awesome providers etc.  Let me treat you like a king etc blah blah blah.  Now there are some that don't kiss.  Now before the arguments start about the ladies can do whatever they want with whomever they want blah blah blah.  I'm not arguing that I'm just saying that it's frustrating when you pick a hottie to go see ask what her parties are, find out she does GFE, make the trip there(weather across town or across the country) to find out she doesn't kiss.  Now I've never had a GF that didn't kiss me in real life so how can these girls offer this type of party (sometimes  at higher prices than just a straight lay) and not give you the Girlfriend experience?? Has anyone else encountered this??? what were your thoughts?? for the record this is LPIN wide not at any one particular house just wondering and venting a little

The GFE thing has come up quite a few times over the life of this forum. The definition seems to vary greatly from client to client and provider to provider. I'm not sure it's actually possible to create a one size fits all definition. Can't say that kissing has ever mattered to me. For me, it appears that it basically amounts to anything beyond the "Three Minute Men" approach common to Hotel Street in Honolulu during WWII to something more approaching a geisha experience, depending on who you ask.

[Sonja]

GFE may mean "mainstream" vs. Kink these days and that definition varies based on the girl's (& your) background and interpretation of "mainstream"

[Rickwild1]

GFE may mean "mainstream" vs. Kink these days and that definition varies based on the girl's (& your) background and interpretation of "mainstream"

open to interpretation...

I agree that's its just best to drop the whole GFE thing. just communicate and say "i want this and that and some of this and a little bit of that". make sure your on the same page with the girl BEFORE the party starts. because if you just say I want a GFE party you may find out your "interpretation" and hers are very different.

I have found just relying on the term "GFE" to describe the party I want to be a very bad idea. never again. I list activities now. specifically.

really most activities are not a problem. the kissing seems to be the area where the trouble is. if I ask for kissing and a girl says sure we can kiss... even that is not specific enough. kissing to her may mean a bit of light kissing. kissing to me may mean making out.

Ive given up on kissing. I don't even kiss the girls now. i let them know i like to kiss. then i just let them kiss me.

honestly... im scared to kiss them at this point. theres no way for me to know exactly where their comfort zone with kissing is. so again, i just leave it up to them now... then i don't have to worry about kissing them to much or to deeply and making them uncomfortable.

heres another GFE issue ive faced... a bit off topic. but, not to much.

ok im paying. yes, obviously we know that. but sometimes it seems like girls are overly concerned with me getting what i want from the party... don't get me wrong... i appreciate that. i really really appreciate such excellent service like that. but girls seem reluctant to accept that them being comfortable and having fun in the party is one of the most important things to me. ever ask a girl what she wants to do now? they always say "its your party, its up to you". if its a GFE party i wanna hold up my end of the deal. to me GFE means mutual. if im with my girlfriend im gonna wanna know what she wants to do. im gonnna wanna please her. i WANT them to tell me what they want! but they just wont... wheres the girl that's gonna tell me to lick her pussy? hell i tell them to gimme a BJ... fair is fair, right? if i wanna do her doggy style i tell her to bend over for me... wheres the girl that tells me she wants to ride me? wheres the girl that lays back and tells me to fuck her? that's what i want... fuck this girlfriend experience shit i want a mutual experience.

it makes me a little crazy that they make it all about me. its my money... let me please you. im payin you to let me please you! what more could you ask for?! rough me up a bit... pull my hair... smash my face into your pussy... fuck me like you gotta have it! mutual... we take turns being the dominant one... we do what i want, then we do what you want, then we do what i want, then we do what you want... lets take turns pleasing each other. lets take turns being the submissive one. tell me what turns YOU on. tell me how to get YOU off. when i find that girl that's the girl that will be my ATF.